Strange Loop?

[Aaron]

In the past, I've used my own guitar to try to figure out Liz Phair songs.  Then a handy little program called Guitar Pro came along and I started using that.  Usually, I'll listen to a song over and over and try to find the individual notes in a chord and then enter them into Guitar Pro.  I've gone as far as editing with Cool Edit (now Adobe Audition) to single out chords, or to play them in a loop.

I've attempted to transcribe 'Strange Loop?' several times over the years with no luck.  The thought of a capo hadn't even crossed my mind.  Duh!

I haven't transcribed anything other than the first bar, and I was wondering if someone could double check to see if it sounds desirable.   I have capo'ed the third fret in standard tuning.

e|--------------------------|
b|--8----10-----8--8-----8--|
g|--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--|
d|--9/10-10-10-10-10--9--7--|
a|--x--x--x--x--x--x--x--5--|
E|--0--0--0--0--0--0--0-----|

As for that last chord in the bar... I'm not confident that that's correct because it seems like there'd be a more comfortable way to play.  Maybe the 10th fret on the low-E string as opposed to fifth on the A-string?  I definitely hear a lot of the open G-string ringing throughout the song.

[JeremyEngle]

Aaron,

Welcome to the forum!

I tabbed "Strange Loop" a few years ago using video footage from a 1995 live concert and am confident that my tab is fully accurate except for a few notes that continue to elude me.

I'm not sure about the guitar tuning on the album version, but Liz's guitar was always tuned a step up during her 1995 tour, so that's how I started. I have since lost the tab but will get in touch with someone who might have it saved.

Just to get you started, the opening figure goes like this:

|---X---X----X----X------------
|---X---X----X----X------------
|---12/14---12---12----x-----12---12-----12------
|---0---0----0----0-----0-----0----0------0--------
|---14/15---0----0-----0-----0----0------0--------
|---0---0----0---10----10----14---10-----15------

This section is played 4 times but on the 4th round, you stop at the fourth chord in the tab (10-0-0-12) and then play this:

|---X----|
|---X----|
|---X----|
|---0----|
|---12---|
|---13---|

I'll get back to you with the rest of it ASAP.

[folderol and]

Here is the tab Millertime428 posted on the Liz Phair Forum a while back:

http://download.yousendit.com/12F911936CE2AF18

I believe both you and Millertime428 are credited to this tab, right, JE?

This is one of my favorite Liz songs, and certainly one of her best. Genius guitar work.

[JeremyEngle]

Thanks, folderol and!

I believe both you and Millertime428 are credited to this tab, right, JE?

No, that one was actually all me -- I can tell by my hackneyed style of notation and the boneheaded commentary. millertime was groovy enough to print it out and make scans of his prints (at least I think that's how he did it).

I'd like to point out my mistake in the original tab, which I never noticed until now but conveniently amended in the intro I posted earlier in this thread. It's the last chord you hear right before the vocals come in; 13 12 0 X X X and NOT 12 11 0 X X X.

Also, it was really lame of me to post that whole thing and not even have the "Baby, I'm tired..." section worked out. I bet if I get out that videotape, I can study it and come up with something better than "Uh, it happens, like, way up at the 13th fret.... there's a bunch of notes.... uh....... you figure it out."

Thanks again, and good luck to us all.

[JeremyEngle]

Actually, what I need to do is draw up a proper .txt document with the song charted out accurately, note for note. There are bits missing from my original tab, and I'd like to clean up the whole thing and have it ready for archiving somewhere on the web. Actually, we need to find a space somewhere on the web for all the truly accurate Liz Phair tabs we've worked out. So much of what is out there on the popular guitar tab sites is shamefully inaccurate, and the best stuff -- such as Ray Lew's tabs (www.raymondlew.com) and the ones we work out ourselves & post to the forumsunlimited.com message boards -- is not easily searchable by any means. There's been some excellent work done by guys like millertime428 & folderol and on songs like "Stuck On An Island," "Easy," and "Shane," and I think it's best shared with the widest possible audience.

[Aaron]

Jeremy,

Thanks a lot, this sounds dead on!  I'm playing it with my capo on the 3rd fret and it's definitely the album version.

However, the (6 0 8 0 x x) during the "...of fighting" part, the open fret on the A-string sounds out of place.  Could it be that that string is muted (x) or even played as a power chord (6 8 8 0 x x)?  It could be that she played it that way live, but when I mute it or make it into a chord, it sounds more like the album version.  What do you think?

Also, for the "Baby, I'm tired" part... how do you feel about:

e|--------------------------------------------|
B|--13--13--13--13-11-11-11-11-11---11--11----|
G|--13--13--13--13-13-13-13-13-13-x---------2/|
D|--13--13--13--13-13-13-13-13-13-x-11--11--2/|
A|--11--11--11--11-11-11-11-11-11-------------|
E|--------------------------------------------|

Of course, the 2's would slide up to the (1 1 3 3 x x), but if you're playing at one-step up tuning (as opposed to capo III) for the live version, then you'll want to start the chord at the 10th fret instead of 11th, if I'm not being too confusing here.

I'd like to tab this out with your transcription in Guitar Pro if you wouldn't mind?  Of course, I'd credit you for the guitar transcription, and I'll add bass, drums, and possibly a vocal track for myself.  I can export to midi, ascii, pdf, and jpeg.  Here are two PDF examples of Batmobile and California.

[TrampolineFrSpace]

So much of what is out there on the popular guitar tab sites is shamefully inaccurate, and the best stuff -- such as Ray Lew's tabs (www.raymondlew.com) and the ones we work out ourselves & post to the forumsunlimited.com message boards -- is not easily searchable by any means. There's been some excellent work done by guys like millertime428 & folderol and on songs like "Stuck On An Island," "Easy," and "Shane," and I think it's best shared with the widest possible audience.

Once we get each song to a point where it seems to be correct (consensus agreement), it could be placed on the main girlysound site outside of the forum.  I believe Harkrider would agree to do that (I believe we've already had this discussion privately anyway).

I'd like to have Jamie (ant_in_alaska) drive this for each of the songs that get worked out, because she wants to be involved in the tabs in this part of the forum.

I'm all for this, but let me see if I can get everyone on board.

--Jon (aka trampolinefromspace)

[JeremyEngle]

Aaron,

I did not know that the album version was played with capo on the 3rd fret (actually, I imagine her guitar was tuned up a full step and they put the capo on the 1st fret.) Thanks for the info -- I'm often too lazy to listen to and play along with records. Fortunately, that is not the case for other folks.

But the groovy thing about having a video bootleg from 1995 is that you can actually visually verify what crazy stuff Liz was playing. Her technique was so odd that it's easy to listen to those old records and think you know what she was playing but still be totally off.

Anyway, I was just watching said bootleg, and I realized I made a number of significant mistakes, starting with the opening riff. Here's my corrected version:

|---X---X----X--X----X---X------------
|---X---X----X--X----X---X------------
|---0---14---X--X----X---X-----0----0------0------
|---0---0----X--17---X---0-----0----0------0--------
|---14/15---X--15---X---12----12---12-----12--------
|---0---0----0--0----0---10---14---10-----15------

I'm going to point out what I changed, because it's very important and was right in front of my eyes, all these years; I can't believe I didn't notice it sooner. Actually, part of me thinks I saw it but ignored it because it seemed too complicated! The fourth figure in the intro, 0 15 17 X is important because the 17th fret note on the 4th string takes the place of the 12th fret 3rd string in my original tab; also note that the 12th fret 3rd string is not actually heard in the very first chord of the song; I think I was misled by the video footage, in which Liz appeared to be fretting the 3rd string at the 12th fret but was actually just positioning her finger there "in shape," poised to fret the 3rd string at the *14th* fret in the second chord. Moreover, I can clearly see her fretting the 4th string at the 17th fret in the fourth figure, and it matches the melody of the song much, much better than my original transcription, which was 0 0 0 12 X X. And, as I said, I can clearly see that that's what she was actually playing. Also, note that I added two figures, both of which are merely the low E string played open (0 X X X X X) in between chord changes. I added them for the sake of accuracy and because the entire chord sequence would seem shorter than it really is without them.

Next up, the chords on the first verse ("The fire you like so much in me / Is the mark of someone adamantly free / But you can't stop yourself from wanting worse / 'Cause nothing feeds a hunger like a thirst" -- what great lines!). In my original tab, I charted out the chords like this:

|---X---X----X----X----X------|
|---X---X----X----X----X------|
|---9---9----0----0----0------|
|---7---7----0----0----0------|
|---0---0---12---14---15-----|
|---8---9---10---10---10-----|

or something close to that. I'm going to make corrections to the first two chords in the series; the rest is accurate as is. Here's what she's actually playing in the concert footage:

|---X-------X--------
|---X-------X--------
|---0-------0--------
|--7H9---7H9------
|---0-------0--------
|---8-------9--------

She doesn't, in fact, fret the 3rd string at the 9th fret as I'd previously assumed. I saw what was actually her hammering on/off the 4th string at the 9th fret and mistook it for fretting the 3rd string at the 9th fret. Upon closer inspection today, I could actually see and hear the hammering on/off as indicated in the above figure, and, although I don't know how to notate it in my tab, it's important to note that the hammering happens TWICE in each chord. I'm tempted to chart it like this:

|------X-------------X--------------
|------X-------------X--------------
|------0-------------0--------------
|--7H9(x2)----7H9(x2)---------
|------0-------------0--------------
|------8-------------9---------------

I'm not sure how to go about notating it, but you probably get the drift.

I'm not even ready to address the "Baby, I'm tired" part, which I watched just once today before promptly stopping the tape. It's going to take quite a bit of patience to figure it out, because the vocals inconveniently drown out the guitar quite a bit right then, and it just happened that the on-stage lighting at that particular moment was dim enough and positioned just so that you can sort of see what her fingers are doing, but not really at what fret! I will say that it looks more like a 9th or 10th fret positioning than 13th or beyond, as I'd originally guessed.

I'll post the results of my extended investigation later... Thanks for bearing with me.

[JeremyEngle]

However, the (6 0 8 0 x x) during the "...of fighting" part, the open fret on the A-string sounds out of place.  Could it be that that string is muted (x) or even played as a power chord (6 8 8 0 x x)?

Yes, you're exactly right. That whole series of chords (G ---> A ---> A#) are played as power chords, as near as I can make out from the video. I'm not sure if the 4th string is left open or fretted, but I'm leaning towards fretted. The 3rd string is definitely played open, though -- that's where the obvious dissonance on the A# is coming from. The whole section looks like this:

"I broke up at the road house..............."

|---X---X---X---X---|
|---X---X---X---X---|
|---0---0---0---0---|
|---5---7---8---7---|
|---5---7---8---8---|
|---3---5---6---8---|

As for "Baby, I'm tired....", I know it starts out with 13 15 0 X X X (on the words "Baby, I'm"), then it goes into this figure:

"tired...."

|---X----X-----X-----X---|
|---X----X-----X-----3---|
|--10----8--11/12----3---|
|--10---10----10-----3---|
|---8----8-----8-----1---|
|---8----8-----8-----1---|

That's the best I can do. I'm 75% sure that it starts out at the 8th fret, and I'm 100% sure about the 3rd string/12th fret note; I can hear it and hum it and match it to my own guitar, and the chord at the end of the sequence is unmistakable in the video footage. So, by my calculations, that means I have about 45% confidence in my transcription of this sequence....

Comments & corrections are greatly appreciated.

[ant_in_alaska]

You guys are doing an amazing job!  Jon, if you need my help with putting tabs on the main page, I'm here.  Thanks JE and Aaron for getting this topic started.  I remember listening to this song with my guitar teacher in confusion, her eyebrows raised, my nose crinkled, no idea what was going on.  Thanks for clearing it up guys!

[Aaron]

That's the best I can do. I'm 75% sure that it starts out at the 8th fret, and I'm 100% sure about the 3rd string/12th fret note; I can hear it and hum it and match it to my own guitar, and the chord at the end of the sequence is unmistakable in the video footage. So, by my calculations, that means I have about 45% confidence in my transcription of this sequence....

Comments & corrections are greatly appreciated.

In response to the "of fighting" part... I was able to listen closely and single out the 4th string.  The first chord's 4th string is open, but the rest are fretted.  So it's like:

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|--3-------0------0---0--|
|--3-------0------5-/-7--|
|--1-------5------5-/-7--|
|--1-------3------3-/-5--|

I exported a midi of this section using Guitar Pro, with the 4th string's notes louder than the rest.  You can listen to that (here).  As for the "I broke up at the road house" part and following, it all sounds fretted.

I just realized that my previous tab for the "baby I'm tired" part is tabbed for the actual fret number, and not in relation to the capo, which I'm not used to doing.  So the 8th fret with a capo would be correct.  Here is the correction:

|------------------------------------------------|
|--10--10--10---8--8--8--8--8---8-----8----8-----|
|--10--10--10--10-10-10-10-10--10--x-------------|
|--10--10--10--10-10-10-10-10--10--x--8*---8-----|
|---8---8---8---8--8--8--8--8---8-------------0--|
|---------------------------------------------0--|

And with that, (here) is the midi export of the above followed by what you saw on the video.

However, you being 100% that the 3rd string is the 12th fret.. when I take my 8th fret on the 2nd string and transpose it down, I do in fact get the 12th fret.  But I'm 100% sure that I'm hearing the 8th fret* on the 4th string, and I don't hear a 10th fret....

I made a loop of that part (here), so I could play along with it.  It does sound like the 8th and 12th frets played together, and when I play it, my middle finger hovers above the 10th fret (like this), but doesn't touch.  And when tabbed out with Guitar Pro, the midi export of that same loop sounds like (this).

Sadly, I couldn't get anything out of the (1 1 2 2 x x) from the album version.  It seems to be both open strings on the 5th and 6th frets.  So my (x x 2 2 x x) was wrong.

I didn't even catch your verse chords corrections until now.  Good job.  That's exactly what I got.  I'm working on the notation right now and here's what I got thus far (it might need to be tweaked a little, and I might keep it the same for every bar).

|--------------------------|---------------------------|
|--------------------------|---------------------------|
|--0-----0-----0-----0--0--|--------0--------0------0--|
|--7-----9-----7--9--7--7--|--------9-----7--9------0--|
|--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--|-----0--0--0--0--0-----12--|
|--8--8--8--8--8--8--8--9--|-----9--9--9--9--9-----10--|


|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------|
|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------|
|------0-------0--0--0---0-------0--|--------0-----------0--------|
|------0---0---0--0--0---0-------0--|--------0---0---0---0-----7--|
|-----12--12--12-12-12--14------15--|-------15--15--15--15-----0--|
|-----10--10--10-10-10--10--10--10--|-------10--10--10--10-----8--|


I'm still trying to deal with that 10th and 15th fret stretch.  I'm not really a big fan of it.

Okay, and lastly... the "I can't be trusted" part.  I tried the (1 3 0 2 0 0) part and it didn't work for me.  I tried (1 3 3 2 1 x) and it worked.  I could hear each note there
individually.  And the chord after that sounds like (x x x 1 1 3) before it goes to (x x 5 4 3 3).  Yet again, (here) is another midi file with my proposed chords.  After the first time though, there's a pause and then you can hear that same part with the chords played as scales.  Can that be confirmed from video?

I think that's all I have for now.  Oh yeah, and there's no way I'm touching the freestyle bass part at the end of the song!

Oh, and as for the capo on the 3rd fret... I've been told that tuning up from standard isn't good for the strings, and I've learned that myself by trying to play that dog. songs, which are in Open-E tuning.  I'd almost always break strings quicker that way, from too much tension.

[JeremyEngle]

In response to the "of fighting" part... I was able to listen closely and single out the 4th string.  The first chord's 4th string is open, but the rest are fretted.  So it's like:

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|--3-------0------0---0--|
|--3-------0------5-/-7--|
|--1-------5------5-/-7--|
|--1-------3------3-/-5--|

I still can't verify this with the videotape; it does look to me like she's actually fretting the 4th string the whole way through to 5 7 7 0 X X, but then again, her live performances from 1995 didn't always match the recorded versions of her songs 100%.

I just realized that my previous tab for the "baby I'm tired" part is tabbed for the actual fret number, and not in relation to the capo, which I'm not used to doing.  So the 8th fret with a capo would be correct.  Here is the correction:

|------------------------------------------------|
|--10--10--10---8--8--8--8--8---8-----8----8-----|
|--10--10--10--10-10-10-10-10--10--x-------------|
|--10--10--10--10-10-10-10-10--10--x--8*---8-----|
|---8---8---8---8--8--8--8--8---8-------------0--|
|---------------------------------------------0--|

However, you being 100% that the 3rd string is the 12th fret.. when I take my 8th fret on the 2nd string and transpose it down, I do in fact get the 12th fret.  But I'm 100% sure that I'm hearing the 8th fret* on the 4th string, and I don't hear a 10th fret....

This is correct. When I play what you have tabbed here -- which actually does look a lot like what I think I see her playing in the video -- it doesn't sound particularly right, but then, neither does anything else I try... But you're right in hearing the 8th fret on the 4th string at the end of the sequence (I can see that in the video). The thing that's throwing me off at the start of the sequence is that she does seem to be fretting the [10 10 10] section of your chord with her 4th finger, which I'm not used to seeing her do; she invariably uses her 3rd finger to make that barre on any A-shape chord she uses (and she uses them a lot -- on your 1 1 3 3 X X, for instance). This leaves her 2nd and 3rd fingers hovering above the strings, and I can't tell if she uses those fingers to do anything else in the sequence. If not, then that leaves only the 4th finger to fret any other notes past the 8th fret, and our choices are pretty limited (in other words, why is this so hard to figure out?!). There really does seem to be only 3 figures in the whole series, and it definitely ends like you think it does, with a barre behind the 8th fret and the 4th finger stretch on the 3rd string to the 12th fret. Bah! I wish you had the videotape as well.

Sadly, I couldn't get anything out of the (1 1 2 2 x x) from the album version.  It seems to be both open strings on the 5th and 6th frets.  So my (x x 2 2 x x) was wrong.

I don't follow what you're saying about the 5th and 6th frets, but I can verify that this sequence ("Baby, I'm tired...") ends with 1 1 2 2 X X (or 1 1 2 2 2 X) and that X X 2 2 X X isn't used anywhere in the song.

I didn't even catch your verse chords corrections until now.  Good job.  That's exactly what I got.

Thanks. Did you notice my corrections to the intro? That was my biggest breakthrough yesterday.

I'm working on the notation right now and here's what I got thus far (it might need to be tweaked a little, and I might keep it the same for every bar).

|--------------------------|---------------------------|
|--------------------------|---------------------------|
|--0-----0-----0-----0--0--|--------0--------0------0--|
|--7-----9-----7--9--7--7--|--------9-----7--9------0--|
|--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--|-----0--0--0--0--0-----12--|
|--8--8--8--8--8--8--8--9--|-----9--9--9--9--9-----10--|

Looks excellent to me.

|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------|
|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------|
|------0-------0--0--0---0-------0--|--------0-----------0--------|
|------0---0---0--0--0---0-------0--|--------0---0---0---0-----7--|
|-----12--12--12-12-12--14------15--|-------15--15--15--15-----0--|
|-----10--10--10-10-10--10--10--10--|-------10--10--10--10-----8--|[/tt]


I'm still trying to deal with that 10th and 15th fret stretch.  I'm not really a big fan of it.

It is quite a stretch, but it can be done. Hey, if Liz's tiny fingers can make it...

Okay, and lastly... the "I can't be trusted" part.  I tried the (1 3 0 2 0 0) part and it didn't work for me.  I tried (1 3 3 2 1 x) and it worked.  I could hear each note there
individually.  And the chord after that sounds like (x x x 1 1 3) before it goes to (x x 5 4 3 3).

That's correct. This little section has always bothered me; I could hear and see the 1st string/3rd fret in your  (x x x 1 1 3) but wasn't sure what other notes I was hearing with it. You're sure it's (x x x 1 1 3) and not (x x x 0 0 3)? I'm just asking because I don't know what I'm hearing, and can't verify from the video tape whether she's fretting the 2nd and 3rd strings or if her 1st finger barre is just hovering above the strings.

Yet again, (here) is another midi file with my proposed chords.  After the first time though, there's a pause and then you can hear that same part with the chords played as scales.  Can that be confirmed from video?

Sadly, I'm no closer to verifying anything with the video beyond what I laid out in my paragraph above. On the album version -- which, incidentally, I haven't even bothered to play since I started working on this again a few days ago -- there's greater emphasis on the 3rd string than any other in that sequence, right?

Oh, and as for the capo on the 3rd fret... I've been told that tuning up from standard isn't good for the strings, and I've learned that myself by trying to play that dog. songs, which are in Open-E tuning.  I'd almost always break strings quicker that way, from too much tension.

My only concern would be how confusing it might be at first to transpose the melody to different frets, and how cramped certain sections might feel (although, you might prefer them to be cramped when it comes to the 10th --> 15th fret stretch, right?). I've only ever tried to play this song when my guitar is tuned up a full step, so I don't know. I'll add that I've kept my old Fender tuned up a full step for the past several months -- and played it aggressively, too -- and my strings haven't even gone out of tune, much less broken. And they're way beyond their expiration date, too! Different strokes.

[Aaron]

I still can't verify this with the videotape; it does look to me like she's actually fretting the 4th string the whole way through to 5 7 7 0 X X, but then again, her live performances from 1995
didn't always match the recorded versions of her songs 100%.

And they probably never will.  I mean, if she plays this song in the future, she's probably not gonna worry about the open 4th string like we are, haha.

I don't follow what you're saying about the 5th and 6th frets, but I can verify that this sequence ("Baby, I'm tired...") ends with 1 1 2 2 X X (or 1 1 2 2 2 X) and that X X 2 2 X X isn't used anywhere in the song.

The X X 2 2 X X was actually my mistake, since it should've been an octave lower, being 0 0 X X X X instead, which is the last 1/8th note of that bar, leading into the 1 1 3 3 X X of the next bar.

I'm 100% on the 0 0 X X X X (for the album version) at the end of the "...tired" bar (which is a 6/4 time signature bar).  The 1 1 2 2 X X would only mean that the ending chord of this bar and the beginning bar of the next would both start with 1st frets on the E and A strings, meaning there'd be no significant change between the two chords.  My only assumption is that the 1 1 2 2 X X is actually her fingers lined up to get ready for the 1 1 3 3 X X and she's actually stroking the 0 0 X X X X.

Thanks. Did you notice my corrections to the intro? That was my biggest breakthrough yesterday.

I did, and that's pretty cool!  Although I had no problem with the previous interpretation.  It sounded like that 12th fret belonged there during the opening chord, but I guess what I was actually hearing was that the open-fret on the 3rd string transposed down is the 10th fret on the 5th string which is the lower octave of the 12th fret two strings up.

It is quite a stretch, but it can be done. Hey, if Liz's tiny fingers can make it...

Maybe she has freaky E.T. fingers.  I wouldn't know, because when I had the chance to meet her at Lilith Fair '98 (which I drove 4 hours to see just for her), I chose to stay in my seat so my friends could go get their nachos and hot dogs and whatnot.  30 minutes seemed a long time to get food.  Turns out, they got to meet her and I didn't!     Oh well, I still have seen her 3 times!

That's correct. This little section has always bothered me; I could hear and see the 1st string/3rd fret in your  (x x x 1 1 3) but wasn't sure what other notes I was hearing with it. You're sure it's (x x x 1 1 3) and not (x x x 0 0 3)? I'm just asking because I don't know what I'm hearing, and can't verify from the video tape whether she's fretting the 2nd and 3rd strings or if her 1st finger barre is just hovering above the strings.

I put 1 1 3 and 0 0 3 up against one another and 1 1 3 won.  The 0 0 3 just sounds raunchy.  Plus, I believe that the lowest "1" slides up to the 4th fret in the next chord.  You can listen to the differences (here).  The first part is the 1's and the second part is the 0's.

Sadly, I'm no closer to verifying anything with the video beyond what I laid out in my paragraph above. On the album version -- which, incidentally, I haven't even bothered to play since I started working on this again a few days ago -- there's greater emphasis on the 3rd string than any other in that sequence, right?

Correct.

My only concern would be how confusing it might be at first to transpose the melody to different frets, and how cramped certain sections might feel (although, you might prefer them to be cramped when it comes to the 10th --> 15th fret stretch, right?). I've only ever tried to play this song when my guitar is tuned up a full step, so I don't know. I'll add that I've kept my old Fender tuned up a full step for the past several months -- and played it aggressively, too -- and my strings haven't even gone out of tune, much less broken. And they're way beyond their expiration date, too! Different strokes.

Exactly, The 10 to 15 stretch gets more difficult for me closer to the head.  The good thing about tabbing this song out is that since she only tunes up 1 step during live performances, and I capo at the 2nd fret, both end up being played on the same frets (in relation to where 'open' is, and not the actual fret board places).  Tuning up 1 step and adding a capo to the 1st fret would complicate things a little.  Our tabs would be 1 fret off.

This makes me wonder what the standard should be.  Capo'ed at III / Tune up 1-step (and forget capo), OR up 1 step w/ Capo at 1st fret and change everything we've tabbed out by one fret :/

To tell you the truth, I prefer the former since it works both ways.

[JeremyEngle]

I mean, if she plays this song in the future, she's probably not gonna worry about the open 4th string like we are, haha.

I'm going to be completely candid and say it's one of my fantasies to teach Liz how to play her old songs the way they were originally performed, whether by internet or in person. I'm only half-kidding.

In one of my previous posts, I charted out this chord at the end of the "Baby, I'm tired" sequence:

1 1 2 2 X X (or 1 1 2 2 2 X)

That was an embarrassing error on my part; I actually was referring to the chord [(1 1 3 3 X X) or (1 1 3 3 3 X)], the one that comes right before "...of fighting..." No doubt she does strike the open E and A strings [as in your (0 0 X X X X)] right before fretting the (1 1 3 3). Sorry for the confusion.

Maybe she has freaky E.T. fingers.  I wouldn't know, because when I had the chance to meet her at Lilith Fair '98 (which I drove 4 hours to see just for her), I chose to stay in my seat so my friends could go get their nachos and hot dogs and whatnot.  30 minutes seemed a long time to get food.  Turns out, they got to meet her and I didn't!     Oh well, I still have seen her 3 times!

What city was the Lilith Fair in?

I put 1 1 3 and 0 0 3 up against one another and 1 1 3 won.  The 0 0 3 just sounds raunchy.  Plus, I believe that the lowest "1" slides up to the 4th fret in the next chord.  You can listen to the differences (here).  The first part is the 1's and the second part is the 0's.

Those midi files kill me. Funny and amazing. I definitely agree with you on the 1 1 3; that actually sounds like the album version -- actually, that might be my favorite part of the song right there. Did you put bass on the midi file? I think what always made it so hard for me to tell what notes were played on the guitar on the 1 1 3 was that I was used to hearing that section with the bass, and when I'm playing it alone on guitar, nothing really sounds convincing. But now that I've heard the midi file and gotten your assurance, I'm convinced.

This makes me wonder what the standard should be.  Capo'ed at III / Tune up 1-step (and forget capo), OR up 1 step w/ Capo at 1st fret and change everything we've tabbed out by one fret :/

We've been using two different source materials for the tab; I've been content to work off the bootleg and haven't had to use a capo because of my guitar's tuning. In other words, I've had it really easy. I don't even feel qualified to voice an opinion on the matter. :/

Continuing with corrections to my old, old tab:

"It wouldn't shock you if I drove right out through the back of your eyes, I can't be"

|---X---X---X---X---X---X---|
|---X---X---X---X---X---X---|
|---0---5---X---0---0---0---|
|---5---5---3---2---5---7---|
|---5---3---3---3---5---7---|
|---3---0---1---3---3---5---|

[Aaron]

I'm going to be completely candid and say it's one of my fantasies to teach Liz how to play her old songs the way they were originally performed, whether by internet or in person. I'm only half-kidding.

Haha, that sounds like a good idea though.  I bet if someone did show her, she'd pick it back up pretty quickly.  I would love to see Liz go back to her roots.  I once met a girl who liked Liz Phair and I played Juvenilia in my car and she was like "What is this?"  She hadn't known of her existence before the self-titled :/

What city was the Lilith Fair in?

Just south of Chicago... August 1998.  I jumped at the first chance to see her, for fear of her never touring alone.  To tell you how important it was to get tickets... I was in line at 8:00 a.m. for tickets on Saturday, May 17th, 1998.  Just 6 hours after totaling my car by crashing it into a light pole (someone cut me off) and messing up my neck and back.  I was in sooooo much pain.  They stuck me in the waiting room at the hospital and never called me in, so I took off my neck brace and left.  Meanwhile, my friend was getting windshield shards removed from his forehead.